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In this episode, we talk about what boundaries are, why you need them, and why women don’t set them. As well as boundary setting with toxic people, how to have strong boundaries, reinforcing those boundaries, and getting rid of the guilt!

Episode 6 – 

Boundaries like a MFer: Having strong boundaries and zero guilt!

Randi: Welcome to episode six boundaries like a motherfucker. Having strong boundaries and zero guilt. 

Jess: Episode six of the podcast unapologetically all over the place with Randy and Jess, where we talk about women's mental health issues and how it's all normal. 

Randi: In this episode, we talk about boundaries, why you need them and why women don't set them. 

Jess: As well as setting boundaries for toxic people toxic people.

Randi: I'm toxic. 

Jess: And how to have strong boundaries, reinforcing those boundaries and getting rid of the guilt. 

Randi: Women are often shamed or chastised for speaking up or defending their needs. And we, as women have been taught, by our mothers or by society, or just the way that past generations have act to put ourselves last and that our needs are not as important. 

Putting yourself first or speaking up about your needs does not make you a bitch and it does not make you selfish. 

Jess: Oh, I hate that. I hate when I'm being direct and they're like, Ugh, you're being kind of bitchy. 

Randi: Yeah. But really it's just being assertive.

Jess: Right. 

Randi: And why are we not allowed to be assertive? Why are we not allowed to want things done a certain way? Why are we not allowed to say this is how things should be done? Why are we called a bitch because of that? No, like I'm a badass, like I'm a boss.

Jess: I'm gonna put my boundaries in place. And there you go. 

Randi: I don't need to be meek. I don't need to be mild. I don't need to tame down myself for other people to digest me. 

Jess: Oh, my God. That's amazing. 

Randi: Thank you. 

That's really good. 

 All right. Have you ever thought if I had a housekeeper, maybe he or she wouldn't call me lazy?

It's okay. She only yells at me when she is stressed. 

Jess: I know he talks about me in front of the kids, but I know he loves me. Or I know she loves me, even though she talks bad. Oh, talk about a mother-in-law. 

Randi: If I wasn't such an introvert, she or he wouldn't talk too much for me. So like somebody that speaks over you 


Or says, they're speaking for you because you might be too quiet or you might not be saying the right things.

Why do you need somebody to speak over your own voice. 

Jess: Or the people who take some time to process before they say something, and that's okay. Sometimes we need extra space. Okay. If I hadn't sent a text message, she, or he would not be sending me a million texts now. Like people who just bombard you a text messages when you're like, oh my gosh.

Randi: And you're like, oh, you put that back on you like it being like your fault. Yes. And you're like, wait, no, this is not a me issue. Or if I had a stronger personality or if I was just this way, so, and so wouldn't take advantage of me, like again, why are we putting this shame and this guilt on ourselves for that?

Jess: Or finally, maybe if I just, I don't know, blank, he or she would treat me better. 

Randi: And so have you ever called yourself a bitch for standing up for yourself? Yes. 

Jess: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever had someone call you selfish for not doing what they wanted? That's a big one right there. 

Randi: And that's a little bit, we'll probably talk about this later kind of narcissistic behavior.

Jess: So what the fuck are boundaries?

So when it comes to personal space, feelings, needs and responsibilities, it's important to have boundaries in order to avoid being taken advantage of. 

Boundaries. Tell other people how they can treat you and how far they can go. 

Randi: So establishing boundaries is essential for maintaining healthy relationships.

Like from the get go, or you can implement them right now, and people are gonna push back against them. 

Jess: Always. They always push back. 

They're not gonna like it, but if you hold to them, they will learn that that is what they can expect from you. 

 And what it's doing is you're setting your limits and telling people, this is how I want to be treated. That's what a boundary is. This is what my expectations are. This is how I wanna be treated. This is it , it's very black and white with boundaries. 

Randi: So essentially boundaries help you learn how to communicate in a clear and concise way. 

Jess: And they are so hard to maintain.

 Like really, truly you set a boundary and you like I set that boundary and you're gonna have to keep resetting that boundary 

Randi: again and again, and again, and again and again, especially with toxic people. 

Jess: Oh my gosh. And one of the things I use as an example is that we've all been on a freeway a toll bridge or a highway, depending upon where you are in the country and what they're called toll ways are so hard. I got stuck once in Boston and I think I went through that motherfucker three times I had to pay like three times for that. 

Randi: So like where we're from in the bay area in California, you have a thing that you have to pay for and it like clicks and it charges you every time you go, like on a certain toll.

 So if you were like going through that loop, it would be like, Ching, Ching, ching 

Jess: No, in Boston's like that too. I got stuck and we had to keep paying the dude and he was like, I was like, I don't know how to get off this anyway. 

Randi: Like way, please tell me where I'm supposed to go. Anyways. That's kinda like boundaries, , 

Jess: So we all know that the dotted line says we can cross it. If you have a dotted line and you should signal first. So you, and look, so you don't crash into somebody but it's not like against the rule. And then you have, so that's like a soft boundary.

 A hard boundary would be like a center divider, there is no way hell, you're going through that center 

Randi: For the double yellow lines or whatever, to double white, 

Jess: The solid white lines, 

Randi: Whatever do not cross those 

Jess: and so those are hard boundaries when you crash into 'em, you literally will crash into them.

 Or you get a ticket or whatever, yeah. A soft boundary is the one where you're like, yeah, I can, I have a little wiggle room you might crash into somebody and you might wreck And so you have to figure out what your soft and hard boundaries are. And then it's okay when you're learning to go far and make them all very hard, like hard, no, no pass and adjust as you learn.

Randi: And this is that's. I think so important to note is that you're allowed to make mistakes and readjust them as you are, figuring out what boundaries do and don't work for you. Like it doesn't need to be at you're like, oh God I made this boundary and now this isn't working or whatever you decide, but you can change it.

Jess: Absolutely. You can be like, you're allowed to, yeah. You can be like, oh, this was my boundary last week and it didn't work. So now I'm gonna go and do this. So I wanna talk about also, why do we need boundaries? What else do they help us? 

Randi: They set up realistic expectations for many things like how we want to be treated how we want our life to play out with friendships, relationships. They're important for self care. 

Jess: And we talk about this. I'm sorry. My hat keeps hitting everything today. I'm all over the place. Okay. So boundaries also could be sexually. Yes. We could have 'em financially, we can have 'em with our spouses. We can have 'em with our coworkers. We can have 'em with our boss. We can have 'em with neighbors. 

Randi: We can have 'em with our children. 

Jess: Yeah, my gosh. Yes, we can have 'em with our children. And when you have boundaries, it really allows you to be your authentic self, because you're like this is, this is truly who I am and what I will not do.

Randi: And I, and going back to communication. Then, like you have so much more clear cut communication. You are telling people, this is what I need from you. If you can give it to me. Great. If you can't, that's fine too. 

Jess: Yeah, absolutely. It just means that you can't do this or that in my life. Boundaries help you assert yourself and watch your feelings in a relationship, like how are you feeling? What is it you're okay with? What is it? You're not okay with 

Randi: So again, expectations. Yes. Expectations versus like reality, because I think a lot of us, we think things and we don't communicate them. Mm-hmm And then we're wanting something from someone else or wanting something for ourselves, but we've never actually said what that is.

And I've learned that like in marriage and relationships and stuff too, like if I am not clearly saying, this is what I need, this is what I want. This is what I hate. This is what I love. Like. How is that other person friend, or spouse or partner going to know, like they are not mind readers.

Jess: I was just gonna say that, I was just gonna say, literally say maybe we're mind readers. 

Randi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Jess: But yeah, my spouse is not a mind reader. 

Randi: And I had to learn that I had to learn to be like, this is what I want. Like I make an Amazon wishlist. Yes I do. And I'm like, these are the things I want. this is what you can choose from. So I, cuz gift giving is my Lang love language. Yeah. So it's if you are not filling that cup, like I'm like, so here's an outline, like you can choose within this outline. Here's some like ideas. And that ended up making him a better gift giver. Because like he had a direction to go.

People are like, that's cheating. My sister's husband's 

That's not cheating. 

Jess: That's not cheating at all. 

Randi: And I'm like, no. So I give him her list of what she wants, because he doesn't want the list direct from her. So I'm like I'm just gonna circumvent this. 

Jess: And so now he know if he's listening, 

Randi: He's not listening, but 

Jess: nice.

But but yeah, so it's that's what I do. So here are my expectations. Here's my Amazon wishlist. Now go fill it. And he didn't do this last birthday. He's still in. 

Is he still in trouble?

Randi: Yeah. He's still in trouble. 

Jess: Yeah. I had a feeling so boundaries also help, like not to give, how do I phrase this to not give more than you can afford? And I'm talking financially, emotionally, physically it's to keep you within your bandwidth. How many times do I say I have no bandwidth for this I can't give anymore. 

Randi: And that's true because like I used to bend myself backwards like financially and time wise for people. And then I started realizing , they weren't giving me that time back or like they wouldn't support me in that way financially. So , I had to tell myself too, and this was, coming back on me and my self care and like my mental health and like my financial health and stuff, , okay, like you said, bandwidth, your capability that you should only give this much. If you are not getting this much back and then that's it. So it's again too, it's holding ourselves like accountable, accountable to those things. So we're not ending up like in a spiral of something that could take us down financially or emotionally.

Jess: Or how about if you don't speak up when something bothers you, again, nobody's a mind reader, right? Right. The boundaries help you speak up for yourself and you're like, no, no, this is not okay. I do not like this mm-hmm or I do like this, or, mm, this is a hard, no. 

Randi: And I think, we think too sometimes Didn't you see t hat bothered me. Aren't you reading my body language and it's like probably no, like people are not really 

Jess: Attuned, 

Randi: Attuned. They don't really pay attention. Some people are not visual mm-hmm and I know too, like with my ADHD, I have blindness to a lot of things.

Jess: Yeah. 

Randi: Like around me cuz I can get so hyper-focused on one thing. So like I'm missing like these other signals and stuff. So it's no, like you can't, you're not always like seeing that person. Even if they're like in front of you, you're not always reading their body language correctly. You, so you might be totally missing the mark.

Jess: And part of this is also that I don't know, is it our job to read their body language maybe, but it's also our job to speak up for ourselves. And that's what these boundaries do. It's so we can ask for what we need. Yes. I need this and set limits. That make sense for us that are healthy for us. How many of us are just overwhelmed, taxed out? What else can we say? Just burnt. 

Randi: Yeah. Burnt to crisp. Yes. I feel that. Yeah. And I do that too. I am not very good with self care. I'm not very good with communicating when I'm tired. When I'm stressed. And so it's like, I need to, again, revert back to my boundaries. W hat do I need to be saying? What I need to be telling my family what I need to be telling, like my partner, like so that I'm not getting to the point where I'm being like, mean or disrespectful or inconsiderate. And then it triggers like their emotions and. Things and and then the situation blows up 

Jess: Or their expectations. Cause we all put expectations out there. I loved it. I was coming to your house one day and you're like, I have till this time and I was like, girl, that's a great boundary. 

Randi: Yeah. Oh, I, that sounded kind of bitchy, like again, and then you were like, oh yeah, that was awesome. You said that. And cuz I was just like, I am so stacked today. am so busy. And then I was like, so I, but I allotted this amount of time for it. And then you were like, no, that was good. You said that. And I was like, yeah. And then I was like, yeah, I'm proud. Wait, I'm not being a bitch. 

Jess: No. And I was running late and you were like, that's great. I have from 10 to 12 o'clock yeah. 

Randi: So we still only have this time. 

Jess: When you get here is when you get here and that's it. And that goes into not accommodating people when it hurts you. Because you were like, I have till 12, that's all I have. And that's great. I was late. It was my fault. And I wasn't upset with you for setting that boundary because I knew I was running late. 

Randi: Because then it would've had I kept pushing like the day back and back and back then, other things would've gotten backed up too. And then I would've been like frustrated and then I would've been like, Ugh, like, why did I yeah. And resentful and like, why did I do that? So setting boundaries just help overall communication and your overall wellbeing. 

Jess: And I was good with it because I was late. And so that was totally fine.

It was on me that day. 

Randi: Right. 

Jess: And I was like, yeah, yeah, that's fair. 

Randi: Well, Cuz you're mature and you own that, but yeah. But a lot of people, yeah. Sometimes we're not I mean, we're not very mature, like no, no, no. At all. But so why do we not set boundaries more? 

Jess: Fear fearful. If I set a boundary, maybe they won't like me.

Randi: This is something that I talk about with my daughter all the time. Mm-hmm Cause she asks me sometimes I, I know these. You know, Girls or these guys I've known them like forever since we've been in like middle school together and they act totally different with another person than they do when they're with me.

And why is that? And I said fear because they're afraid those people aren't gonna like them. If they're not conforming to the overall. Theme that's playing out for that day or whatever. And so yeah, fear insecurity. Doubt. And we think this stuff ends in high school and it doesn't.

No, no, it carries on that. Doesn't yeah. So you're not alone in that. 

Jess: No. And most of us are not, I know we talked a couple episodes ago that your mom handed you this boundary book and you're like, what the hell is that? And, and really, truly, most of us aren't taught boundaries. Especially as women we're taught to oh, biggest pet peeve is, oh, go give uncle or auntie Soandso a hug. 

Randi: Oh, cringe 

Jess: We teach that from like the get go of, you should hug these people that even if it 

Randi: makes you uncomfortable. 

Jess: And nobody we're at least doing it now, but I didn't grow up with permission.

That's a boundary. No, I don't wanna hug that person. 

Randi: You just do it, just do it, just do it.

Jess: Just give them a hug. They wanna hug. 

Randi: You can't do this until. Done this appeased you know, right. somebody else. And it's like, why? 

Yeah, exactly. 

I don't wanna give that person. So yeah. So we've been taught from the get, go to not have boundaries. And so we've then never learned them. So that's why we're here to help you learn them. It's never too late. 

Jess: It is never too late. 

And the other thing that people is low self worth, you don't value. I think women just don't value themselves as much. Like really? 

Randi: No, because again, we were talking about we're taught to put ourselves last.

We're taught. Yes. Taught to be the nurturer we're taught to be the caretaker mm-hmm so, um, and. Like As society as a whole is has been played out to us like on media and things like that, that were last on the list. We're supposed to be burnt out. We're supposed to be tired. We're supposed to be overwhelmed.

Like we're supposed to be frustrated no. Why, why. 

Jess: And that's that whole like messy bun wearing a target shirt. 

Randi: Yeah. Getting, getting shit done, 

getting shit done. Yeah. I have a Tumblr that says that my sister made it for . 

Jess: But why is, why is going shopping for our household needs supposed to be mom time?

 Granted, we like target, but like why is that? Our are, are downtime. 

Randi: Yeah, exactly. That is a pet peeve of mine too. Like my sister's husband had said when we were on vacation together well, she leaves all the time and goes to target and I'm like, she's buying shit for the house.

Isn't she? Right. Am I, Am I going to Costco? I'm like, that's like, yeah like, I mean, some of us do enjoy shopping, but not. Yeah, I do too, but not all women do. And so you're still doing things for your household. Yes. That you're still doing things that need to be done. That's not really downtime, and she works and takes care of kids. And so it's like, why can't she have an hour to go to target without kids? Like, why is that deemed. Less than, 

Jess: or why is it she can't lock herself in her room and say, not it, I need an hour to read. Why is it that target or shopping or Costco? Right.

Mm-hmm I mean, I enjoy those, but if I'm buying toilet paper or 

Randi: wanting to be alone, yes. For 30 minutes is considered like selfish, no, insert those. Yeah. 

Jess: All right. So as adults, why is it? We insert, this is funny. as adults. Why do we not have boundaries? Why are we having a hard time with it? 

Randi: We don't have the right support or knowledge with it because we, again, we haven't learned it.

 And also you get mixed messages from people. 

Jess: Oh my gosh. That's like going back to the hug thing. Yeah, I know this is your boundary, but 

Randi: yeah, but I'm gonna, I'm just, I don't care. That's basically what they're saying. 

Jess: It is every time I know this is you don't wanna do this, but this is what I want 

Randi: because People don't like feeling inconvenienced and they don't like being held accountable.

Yep. So when you. Assert yourself like that. They're kind of like, Ugh you know, and I feel like it's like, you know, same thing. Like with my seven year old, when I tell him to do something, he wants to push back. 

Jess: And he's seven he's supposed to. 

Randi: But I feel like that's what even adults do when we try to assert our boundaries and put them in place.

They're like, let me push this and see if she really means it. 

That is part of the reason why we always have to keep reinforcing the boundaries. You have to, a lot of times people also, they don't know themselves well enough. 

I don't know what my boundary is. I don't know how I feel about 


And that's why we said it's like, okay, to test them out. And sometimes we are still, still, still finding out who we are, like even at a later age in life. Oh my gosh. we are ever changing. Yes, we are ever evolving. Yep. There we are not gonna be staying the same person as we were five minutes ago because we're always learning new things.

We're always obtaining new things. We're constantly changing direction and the world is constantly changing around us. So why would we stay the same? 

 Thank God. 

Jess: I, 

Randi: I love who I was when I was 20, but thank God. I was able to change in 30 and I was able to change in 40. And when I hit 50, I'm not telling anybody, but I'll be able to change.

It'll be great. 

 And along with that, too, like we were talking about before, comes with the fear of rejection that if I put this in place, I am going to lose friends. I am going to lose family. I am going to lose whoever and. That can't happen. It has happened to me. I put a boundary in place. I lost a bunch of friends, but let me tell you, it was the best thing I ever did in my life.


whoa. And then how about the hardest thing I struggle with too is how to say no, without feeling guilty. And I'm, I'll go over in a little bit about how different ways to say no. Okay. Because no is a complete sentence. It is. I love it. My 

husband can be like don't to, yeah. You don't need to explain.

No, you don't need to like, as woman we feel like we need to explain. Offer and give and I'm sorry. And we need to talk about that too, stop saying, I'm sorry. 

yes. Stop saying that. Yeah, definitely stop. 

But, so I love that. No is a complete answer. Yes. 

Okay. So in setting boundaries, the first thing you wanna do is you want to set yourself up before you're in the middle of having to set that boundary.

And the example I give is we've all played monopoly, a thousand times, if we're gonna play mono. And we're gonna pass go, and I'm gonna decide that we're playing recession, monopoly and you're only gonna get a hundred dollars. You're only gonna get a hundred dollars, not 200. You are gonna be mad at me because I didn't tell you.

And you're gonna be like, no, I didn't agree to that. But if we're gonna play monopoly and I say, Hey, let's play recession and you're gonna be like that sucks. But yeah, I wanna play with you. Yeah. Okay, cool. Okay. Every time you pass, go, and I hand you a hundred bucks, you're gonna be like, all right. I agree to this.

I understand. Okay, cool. Yeah. And so part of setting boundaries is letting them know ahead of time. Not right when you're in 

the thick of it. Yeah. Expectations. Yeah. Yeah. And what's gonna be like delivered, 

 Be direct just be direct with what your expectations are. 

Don't give long explanations.

Don't apologize. Take a deep breath, 

take a deep breath. Woo . 

Jess: You know, and, 

Randi: And sometimes starting with the, a lighter stage, we talked about like soft boundaries versus hard boundaries. 

Jess: Right? Mm-hmm .

Randi: Sometimes when we're learning boundaries, I'm talking all over here with my hands, by the way, we go all the way over to what I call the hell no stage.

 And that's a hard boundary hell no, I'm not doing anything like that. Yeah. And then sometimes we learn to come back, like, all right, maybe this one I can have a little wiggle room on. And there are gonna be some that always stay in the hell. No and some 

that move over.

Yeah. Exactly. And then reinforcing that again. And again, when you find that boundary is like sitting well with you and you're attuned to that, and it is what you want for yourself and your life, reinforce that over and over and over again, even if. People try to push it, the same person that was doing it before and trying to push it the whole time or somebody new coming into your life.

Set it again and again, and again, and again, write it out. If you need to have a cheat sheet with you. If you're feeling weak you know, like this is what's good for me, like this is my boundary and I'm gonna reinforce it. 

Jess: Stick it in your visor, on your car. So every time you start your car, you see it.

If you're like doubting yourself, talk to a friend, talk to a therapist and just learn to trust 

yourself. Learn to trust yourself, be okay with that. And. Sometimes you can tell people like this is not personal. This is for me. And sometimes when you take that, if they're feeling like super offended because you never know, like some people and their personality types, but you can be like, this is just how I live my life.

This is what I use to communicate. This is what I need, and this is who I am and that's you own it. And so it makes. Feel like, it's not like you sometimes like attacking like them and that it's like specific to them. Cuz people can get 

Randi: like 

Jess: all 

Randi: like 

Jess: offended. Oh God, you're inserting this boundary because of me.

And it's no, because of the whole world, not about you. Yeah. It's not about you. So I 

have a bestie who learned boundaries in her forties and I already warned her. I'm gonna talk about it. Cause I love it. She was the she's the person that if you need something, she would drop it off at your house in a heartbeat.

 She. Connection she'll connect. You she'll do all this stuff, but it was getting to be really toxic for her. And so in her early forties, she's learned boundaries probably about two years ago. She moved everything over to the hell, no stage, and she's totally okay with it being in the hell, no stage.

And what she says, when people ask her, she'll say, I can't do that. And they'll say, why not? And she'll be like, cuz I have boundaries and that's her answer. Yeah, because I have boundaries. What do you mean? Nope, these are my boundaries. I have boundaries. That's it? And that's. And I'm like, do you need to wiggle those?

She says, Nope, that's my boundary. I'm good with it. And that's fine. You can totally 

be good with it. Yeah. And she could have that hell no, that's what she needed to, and then maybe she can find, she can add this stuff back in or she's missing doing a, B or C, but for the time being, no, she was getting burnt out.

Burnt, burnt out. Yes. Yeah. I'm that type of person too. Like I used to be like, yes, yes, yes. To everything and I had to go to no, no, no to everything and just reset and just be like, I can't give anything to anyone right now and I have to, and then slowly I let things back in.

Randi: So let's. Talk about toxic people. 

okay. So let's describe what a toxic people is. It's not the Britney spear song. No. Do you wanna sing that one? Cause 

Jess: I 

Randi: I'm like no, no, no. Okay. So it's not the Britney spear song, so let's what is a toxic 

person. So she did have a love of toxic people in her life. So yes she did.

That is very true. Yeah. So somebody that lies to you on a consistent basis somebody that takes advantage of your kindness they don't respect your boundaries. 

Oh, they're manipulative to get what they want. They put you down. There's so many people that can just, they just put you down to make themselves 

feel better.

And sometimes they do it like in a joking way, like ha ha. Just kidding. That's not funny, jK. Yeah. Oh doesn't encourage you to pursue your goals. Doesn't want 

you to be successful, they're not like a cheerleader like for you. And I found that too, when I started having like a lot of success was that other people that I had cheered along, like along the way, they weren't cheering for me.

And they became very jealous, like of my success. And I was like, Ooh, That's not okay. No, like that's toxic. Yeah. That's really weird. And it's toxic, 

 People who are constantly angry or they feel entitled to whatever. 

 And then they like rarely apologize or rarely they, so they rarely own up to anything that they've done, which can also be like a narcissistic.


Yep. How about blaming others? It's not my fault. If they did this, then I wouldn't have had to do that. Or, oh, it's your fault. If you hadn't behaved this way, then I wouldn't have had, had to yell at you. Oh, again, 

narcisistic abusive. Yeah, no. They drain your energy, 

energy vampires.

Yeah. I was just thinking that. Have you seen that one show? They're like they're different types of vampires. It's like a spoof show and like one of 'em is a energy draining VA. And he just he's like super boring and he just stands around and like drains, drains your 

Jess: energy, energy. 

Randi: And they like, even the other vampires don't want him around because they're like, oh God, he's so horrible.

 Yeah, you don't wanna energy draining vampire around you. 

 Or they have lots of problems and 

lots of drama. And it's always about them. It's always about their problems, their drama what's happening to them. They never ask you like what's going on with you. And if you try to move the subject off them, they don't.

Have anything to do with that. 

 That's awful. The rules don't apply to them. I know that's a boundary for them, but it doesn't apply to me. Yeah. You're like, nah, bitch. It applies to you. It applies 

to you. No, bitch. It applies to you. I love that. Yeah. No, it applies. Yeah. They talk and don't listen.

Yeah. And that goes back to the. The drama and the problems. And if it's not focused on them, if it's not me, me, me, me, me, they don't wanna, they don't want the you, you, you. They're not even hearing like anything like about you, so what do we do when they don't respect our boundaries? 

That's a hard one. We can internally flip them off.

We can go, fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Yeah. In your 

head. But I yeah, like in my mind, I'm like, Ugh, but the problem is that most of us really do care and we usually do want the relationships in our life to work out and you have to decide if they are. Not going to respect me this many times or if I'm trying and trying, and the communication isn't happening, or they're not meeting you, like, when are you, you have to decide for yourself, when are you gonna let go of that relationship or friendship. And then you have to decide is this boundary worth 

it? Is it a, is it one of my hell no hard nos, 

Jess: right? 

Randi: or is this something that okay. I can make an adjustment on, yeah. And same thing, is it the best thing for your mental health? Like you have to think about that is setting this boundary and they're not respecting it and I need to let, possibly let go of them.

Is that gonna be overall better for my wellbeing? Usually the answer is yes. If they're not respecting it and you're not coming to a compromise with them and they're not hearing you or seeing you at all. So you have to make that decision and sometimes like writing that out and journaling about it and having that conversation with yourself and putting it like in the black and white can help you like decipher if that's what needs to be done.

Jess: And that also helps for people who are getting gaslighted. I mean, That's one thing, I think that's an entire episode, yeah. But that happens a lot where you're like, I didn't say that that's not what happened. This is my boundary.

And if you could go back. And look at your writing. You're like, no, no, no, this is totally what happened. I am not crazy. This is what it was then, then you can go, okay. They're not respecting me and they're not respecting my boundaries. 

Randi: And I think a lot of communication issues too happen, like over text nowadays because people are interpreting things.

Differently than they would, if you were talking face to face. 

Jess: Oh, I think people say things over text because they're chicken shits and they won't actually say it to you face to face versus 

Randi: like a text message, a hundred percent. And there's no like time to like also stop and think like I was telling my daughter this too, because she's 16.

 Okay. If I used to get mad at a friend, I would have, I would write like a note furiously, like out to them, and then I would have to hold onto it to whatever eighth period when I was gonna like fold it all, fold it all into a special triangle diamond with like pockets.

But anyways, I was like, you just aged yourself. You just totally . But then I had time to think about what I wrote and I saw it in black and white. Yes. And I could like erase and be like, maybe this isn't a best decision. Or maybe by that time 12 hours later when I saw my friend I was like, okay, I don't need to give her this note or I'm over it.

It's now we just. Instantaneously shoot off a text or a video or a FaceTime call and we like go off and there's no lag time. There's no processing time. Right? There's no time to process that. There's no time to stop. There's no time to erase. There's no time to take back. And I was like telling my daughter you need to stop and give yourself like a minute because.

Day and age kids make videos about each other and this on the other end, people like go to social media and it can like, just avalanche like into like this huge thing, because you just, haven't taken a moment to say, 

Jess: no, this is my boundary. 

Randi: Yeah. Or to process. Yeah. To process it, to think about it, to be like, I'm not gonna feed into this and things like that.

And yeah, we Don. Detach from that. That's another thing like detaching, but with love I care about you, but I cannot do this. Like now 

Jess: we can also do that as an and I prefer and okay. I care about you and I cannot do this right now. Yeah. Because every time I think we say, but it negates

and we're so attuned in our society to say I don't know about you know, but, but you know, we can use other words like, and, and however, yes, those are good ones to teach your kids too, is that I like that. I love you. However, I need to do this for me. Mm-hmm I love you. And I need to do this for me, cuz I can have two feelings in the same sentence.

That's smart. That's smart. I, I can do both. And detaching with love is such a weird concept for people. 

Randi: It is because you feel like you're rejecting like that other person or not caring when you're caring for them and yourself at the same time. 

Jess: Detaching with love.

 I think we'll just put this on one of the episode lists, detaching with love is saying it's not saying I don't love you,, and it's saying I love myself as well. Mm-hmm I need to take care of myself. 

Randi: Yeah. Because you matter too. 

Jess: Yes. Oh my gosh. You matter too. Yeah. If detaching with love doesn't work, especially with toxic people and personality disorders, what you can also do is consider limiting contact or going no contact, yep. And I've had to do that with. Family and stuff too, you know, like, um, I love my dad and we have very similar personalities, but for a while there he had very toxic behaviors due to Disorders that run in our family. And I had to be like, I am not in a good place right now.

Randi: Like we have to have no contact. Like I you know, was dealing with postpartum depression and it was pulling me down under with it. And I had to say, we cannot have a relationship right now. Until these things happen and it was like devastating to do that. And my husband had to do that too with some of his family members and I'm trying not to cry right now.

It, it was devastating to feel like we were not having contact with him and that we would not allow contact with them until they got into a better place. But in the end, it was what everybody in our family needed. And it was like the best thing. So it can be very, very, very hard to implement your boundaries.

Jess: And sometimes those people don't come back in your life because correct. You can't change anybody. You can set a boundary, they can decide to respect it or not respect it. And, and that's okay. And it is really hard when it's a family member, because you're like, I need this boundary for my sanity, my safety, my family mm-hmm and if they can't respect it, then they're not in your life.

 We had my aunt who I think there was undiagnosed um, ADHD for her as well. She got into drugs when I. Younger. And so my mom had to put a very hard boundary in place right. of, no, you cannot live in my house. No, you cannot be here because every time she was coming, she was on something, she was wanting money.

 And she passed away then away became like a danger. Yeah. Two weeks ago. And my mom was like, Oh, my gosh, I haven't she felt was really feeling bad. Right. And I had to remind her mom, this was your boundary and no don't offer to pay for her funeral. This is a boundary. We haven't seen her in, oh my gosh.

10 or 15 years because of her choices. 

Randi: And those were her choices. You don't have to take on their choices. Yeah. And their behaviors and that's the hard thing. As women, we do feel like we need to carry that. Guilt. We need to carry that burden. Don't take on burden. That's not yours. 

Jess: Yeah.

Right there with guilt, both guilt and burden. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. Okay. So how do we know when we are not keeping? I'm sorry. That was a little intense there, but 

Randi: yes. Sorry. We went off the rails there a little too emotional. Just a 

Jess: little. No, there's nothing. No, never too emotional. 

Randi: No, no too.

Emotional apologizing, Randy. Don't apologize. . 

Jess: How do we know when people aren't keeping our boundaries? 

Randi: So it can be hard to recognize especially when you're first learning to put them in motion. Check in with yourself. Like I said, like journal or write 'em out or like type 'em on your phone or whatever you need to do and be like, am I holding myself accountable also to these boundaries and keep a red keep a red eye, keep a what are you doing?

Yeah, keep a FLA I can't I'm done. I'm done. Keep an eye out for those. Flags red, what are red flags that are like, like waving in the wind it's time to stop. Okay. So if you think your boundaries aren't being kept, like Randy said, go ahead and journal it, write it down and be like, I set these boundaries, what isn't meeting it.

Jess: If you start to tell yourself some of those things that we talked about earlier if I did this, maybe we would do that. That's some bargaining and some grief shit that we do. Mm-hmm with, with boundaries. Um, This is the big one for me. Oh my gosh. I am resenting something like, let's say something wanna go out on a Friday night and I'm like, yeah.

Okay, fine. I didn't really wanna do it. But I said, yeah. And then Friday comes along and I'm like, oh, I really just wanna sit in my jammies and watch YouTube or something. Then that means I should have set a better boundary because I know by Thursdays or Fridays, I'm burnt. 

Randi: Yeah. And I had that discussion with a friend too, like recently, like she was saying she committed to this thing and she was like, it was coming up and she was feeling, and she was like, I don't wanna feel like a flake.

 I don't wanna be that person. And I was like, you are not normally that person, you are not feeling like going right now. That is okay. You can honor your feeling. that you don't feel like going right now, tell them you can't make it. This is not your normal pattern behavior, you don't usually back out on people.

It's okay to sit without your feeling right now and move in that direction. And I have a good friend that she and I both are flaky, and we both know that, that we're flaky with each other. And we have all the permission from both of us to go I wanted to go to this thing a month ago, but now that it's 107 outside, I don't wanna go.

Jess: Yeah, no, thanks. And I'm cool with that. She's cool with that. And we there's no resentment with either one of us because we know we have that agreement and we have that boundary in place. 

 So that's a good boundary that we have set as friends. Yeah. So if you start wondering whether you made the right decision, and you start doubting yourself, that's where that, that again, doubt comes in and I want you to go back and reread what you wrote, what was your boundary?

Randi: And I did that recently too. Like usually I do a big thing for like my birthday every year and stuff like that and something. There was a plan in place. And I told everybody just to cancel it. I said, don't throw me a party. Don't throw me any surprises. I just am asking that you guys like respect that I am not feeling like celebrating right now.

And that was like really hard for me to do. And like then I was kind of like, oh, I should have just sucked it up. And I was like like I honored the way I was feeling that was my boundary. Like at that point in time and that's fine. And I own that. 

Jess: Yeah. And you know what?

I don't think anyone had a problem with it. We were like, okay. She doesn't feel it. That's great. 

Randi: And so that's how you keep boundaries. You are clear about what you 

Jess: want, and you're direct and not apologizing for what your needs are. Because you don't need to apologize with a boundary.

You don't need to make an excuse. 

Randi: And just keep at it, like even when people are resistant to it, like even when you're getting pushback, just keep inserting your boundaries. 

Jess: Setting boundaries is annoying as back. It really is. It is, especially when you have to keep doing it and doing it. It's a 

Randi: lot of work.

It is. And that's why people are bad at it. And that's why we don't you know, because it's like, shit, I'm using a lot of brain power to do this 

Jess: Part of it too, is that it's really to help you and not 

Randi: to control others. Yeah. You're not trying to control. Behavior, you're trying to control your own behavior and your own expectations and your own needs and stuff.

Jess: And so I also compare humans to animals. I have dogs, and so I can not cats. They're not trainable, but so for dogs, if there's three of us in the house and we all use three different sayings to tell them, say, let's go potty. If one says, do your business one says, go potty. And one says mark your spot, then they're not gonna know what they're gonna be confused.

 So we all said, what words do we wanna use? And it was go potty. They know when we say go potty, they know, and then we all tell them where to go. And we have the same thing around the corner, go potty corner, go corner, because they know where, 

Randi: so you're being consistent. You're being clear. Yes.

You're all on the same page. 

Jess: Absolutely. And yeah, humans are like dogs. Yes. You have to train them. Oh. And that. But it is pick, pick a statement and repeat and repeat it until they get it. Same thing over and over. 

Randi: Lose the guilt, lose, lose the guilt, lose it somewhere in the back of your closet.

On the side of the road. Just toss it out the window. I was gonna 

Jess: saying no, put it out front. Let somebody else pick that shit up. 

Randi: Yeah. Put it in the trash can let the, Trashman pick it up. 

Jess: And know that you're doing this to take care of yourself. And when you take care of yourself, you are going to be a better mama, a better wife, a better friend, a better husband, a better daughter.

Randi: To be a better boss, 

Jess: everything. Oh my God, better boss, better employee, because you're taking care 

Randi: of yourself and don't take on the burden. about how other people feel about it. That's how they feel about it. Let them feel it. You don't need to shoulder that you don't need to carry it.

You don't need to put in your purse. Hell no. Just let them feel how they feel. You feel how you feel, 

Jess: You can't own their feelings. You can, but that's really unhealthy. Yeah. You can't own their feelings if you say no and they get upset. You can do it in a nice, solid way.

You don't have to say no, fuck you. I mean 

Randi: you can, but you can, you 

Jess: can do it in your head. But you can say, no, thank you. No, that's not gonna work for me. There are other things you can say. And just know that when you allow yourself to set boundaries, you are allowing others around you to do the same. You are making way for their boundaries and for them to have the same space. So. Your setting an example. And they're gonna see that come through and see oh wow, like Jess is doing this. I see how this is working for her.

Randi: Like maybe I should try this too, or you're setting an example for your children or you're setting an example for your spouse. And it's the more you do things and people see you doing them well, And that it elevates you. They want what you have mm-hmm and they wanna do what you're doing.

And so it's like you are being a light. You are being an example of how this can work. So like in the long run, it is such a positive thing to set boundaries for 

Jess: yourself. Oh, and that reminds me of one of my favorite poems. I'm gonna put it up, but it talks about letting your light shine.

 And it says you are a child of God, who are you to not let your light shine? Why, why not? Cuz when you let your light shine, you give permission unconsciously for others to do it. Yeah. I'm gonna put it up. Cause I, I, I didn't quote it word for word, but it's just one of my favorites .

Randi: And a lot of people want to. Darken your light. They wanna put your light out and it's like, I think that is just so amazing because you need to give yourself permission to let your light shine to let your true. Authentic self come through and let other people know you at your core.

And if they don't just punch 'em in the throat. Yeah. Don't give a fuck. 

Jess: Yeah, just punch 'em in the throat. We're good. . Benefits of setting boundaries. 

Randi: It gives you the ability to say no, the complete sentence. 

Jess: No, no. Oh my God. So in oh period. 

Randi: No. Yeah. I think it builds more trust. Like not only trust with others, because then they know what to expect, but trust with yourself that you can trust.

In yourself that you're making the best decision for your life and your needs and your mental health and your wellbeing, 

Jess: which then gives you confidence. Yes. That's a big, huge, huge 

Randi: confidence, confidence, yeah. Booster. And it opens up clarity to focus on things that are important in your life.

Like your career, your schooling, your relationships, your business, like yourself. Yeah. Yourself. Like when I cut. Um, Toxic people and I set boundaries, like my career flourished, like my other friendships, like flourished. Like it allowed me to put effort into where I needed to put effort, like the stuff that was fuzzy, like then became 

Jess: clearer. And that's actually how Randy and I met I thought she was like those other people. 

Randi: She thought I was a complete bitch. I did I, to be honest, but she didn't know me. I 

Jess: didn't know her, but I, it was other sensation. And so I was like I'm gonna keep my boundary with this.

One and I did, I kept a boundary with her. I was very friendly. I you know, said hello. And then once I realized, oh, you're not like them. I was like, let's go walk, 

Randi: let's see who you are. And then look at us now 

Jess: once I figured out you weren't like 

Randi: them. Yeah. Because I had. Set boundaries. Yes. And then she saw me set those boundaries and then she was like, oh, like I was wrong about her.

And then it opened up a a relationship to a beautiful friendship. Absolutely. And a great podcast. Right. Like, Damn but yeah. So it's like, Then it brings you. Boundaries can bring you so much more like happiness, fulfillment, satisfaction. I didn't know, like what I was missing and having somebody like Jess, like in my corner that was like a healthy friendship and a healthy relationship.

Like I was a miss. Thing out on that, because I was being dragged down by like toxic behavior. Once you got rid of them, I have seen you flourish as well. It's been this really cool thing. Like a butterfly, like a butterfly, like a butterfly. Absolutely. Okay. 

So what are some strong? Now I'm just, we were like, Singing Britney Spears.

Now I'm singing of what's up Mariah carry songs, but anyways, okay. So strong boundary statements that you can use. Okay. 

Jess: So no, or stop we've said that those are complete sentence you can 

Randi: say no, and yeah. And you can say stop. And as women I'm not even go, gonna go down that road, but we aren't. Heard very well when we say that, but keep fucking saying it.

Jess: Yes, yes. You can say I don't want to blank. 

Randi: Yep. I am uncomfortable with a, B or 

Jess: C. My favorite is this doesn't work for me. I've used that just recently. This last week. I'm like this 

Randi: doesn't work for me. Yep. Or I do not agree. Yeah. 

Jess: I need you to talk to me differently. That's a good one. Mm-hmm I need you to talk diff to me 

Randi: differently.

Yeah. All right. Please use a different tone with me. And I use this all the time too, because my husband. A very, very deep, intimidating voice and he's like a big guy. And sometimes he can use like his like boss, like voice on me and I'm like, oh no that that's homie me. Don't play that and my husband will say, stop therapizing me.

Jess: You have your therapist voice on. And I'm like, okay, do I, maybe I 

Randi: do. Yeah. My daughter will say that too. Stop, like psychoanalyzing me or whatever. And I'm like, I'm not. Or like I find like sometimes friends are like, worried about that and I'm like, I don't have the effort to. Cycle analyze you because it takes a lot of brain power.

So don't worry about that. Or I'm over that, but like my husband, sometimes when he was uh, back managing, we'd be like, don't, you're managing us. Stop managing us. Yeah. You're man. I hear 

your voice. You're using the manager behavior on me, another great one is I need time to think about it and I will come back to you or I will talk to you later about it.

Gives you that chance to pause and process and think about something. 

Jess: And my 12 year old has been using that one that's I need, I, you know,, I need time to think about it because sometimes she's doing something or she doesn't know, and I'm like, let's go, let's go. What are we doing? And she's like, I need to think about it.

 And when you come back to people and you say, can I come back to you? I recommend typically that you give them a timeframe. Mm. Because most of us don't do well sitting in the 

Randi: unknown and waiting and thinking like, oh, the other person's dropped me or ghost. Or like forgotten about me. Yeah. That's great.

Can I get back to you 

Jess: in 10 minutes? Can I get back back to you in an hour, be clear. And when you come back in an hour, if you're like, I still don't know. Can I come back to you and just ask for more time and be very clear with that boundary? Is that I don't know yet. I need to come back to you. Yeah. 

Randi: And this is something too that I had to work on hard too.

Like in my business and being like a therapist is telling people like I do not respond like within 48 hours or like, I'm not gonna. On to emails on the weekend or things like that. So like my clients, or my workers know that they will not be able to get ahold of me in this timeframe. So they have that set expectation.

 And then here are the resources. If something very important comes up. And then if it is a true emergency, like this is the way to get a hold of me, if you do need to push through that boundary, but for the most part, this is it and that's like turning your phone off.

Jess: My phone has an automatic thing where it doesn't ring past nine. O'clock on a weekday. Yeah. You can text me all. You want, you can message me all you want. It doesn't notify me because that's my quiet 

Randi: time. Yeah. And I love that apple has a new thing too, that they came out with us last year. And so you can set up personal focus, work, focus, driving, focus like bedtime.

And so it turns off all the notifications. And if you, and you can put like different, like timeframes on it or whatever, or it can like, like note, like when you normally stop activities. And then for mine, I can put if like my daughter or like husband needed to ring through, then it would break through.

So you can put like important contacts and stuff through if that's like necessary. But like, it's a great way to like, um, give also a boundary with like your phone and like social media mm-hmm ,which I feel like so many of us like need and have a hard time. What do you mean TikTok until two o'clock in the morning is not in, yeah, me especially tikTok until two in the morning working on social media. I'm always on social media. So I have to have a hard boundary with myself that I'm gonna turn off my phone and my husband's probably yeah, you don't, you're not very good with that boundary, but I'm still trying to learn 

Jess: well, and you talked about setting the boundaries.

 I tell my clients that I'm in the office from this time to this time. I have like professor hours. What I find though, is if I'm working on a Saturday or Sunday, which often happens, I'm self-employed. If I send that email out on a Saturday, they get into the habit that, oh, she's around, she's on her phone.

So what I will do is I will set an email up, but I you know, I'll set it out to go out Monday morning at seven. So that way they don't think that I'm available because I'm emailing on the weekend. So I'm setting a boundary with them to say, okay. And sometimes I forget. But what that does is it sets my boundary that I'm not in, I'll do it first thing in the morning and that's their clear expectation. And we need to set those with our with our colleagues, our bosses I'm leaving at five o'clock because I'm 

Randi: done. Yeah. Everybody because it's like, I you know, work all hours of the night and sometimes then that becomes the expectation that, okay I can just get a hold of you, like whenever.

So it's you have to be like, this is the time that I will answer. And this is the time that I won't and that's for like my wellbeing and my mental health and my productivity and things like that. 

Jess: Oh, and this is something I teach my daughter. We are so used to instant, instant access to people 

Randi: nowadays.

Yeah. Instant gratification. We want instant gratification with everything, people, everything, resources information. 

Jess: So just because when it was actually really cute, she was learning how to use her email. She was in the other room. This was, I don't know, four years ago, she was in the other room.

I was in my office working and she sent me a, an email. I didn't respond within two seconds. So what did she do? She ran into my office and said, mom, mom, mom, did you read my email? and I'm like no, honey. So I wouldn't explain to her that if you want someone to get it, whenever you send a mail, like actual snail mail, if you want 'em to respond. Faster, you send it via a email but that means they can respond when they want. If you want a little faster, you send a text message. And then typically that's a faster response. If you want access, like right away, you call and leave a message. I know people are like, don't call 

Randi: anymore.

Yeah. I'm a not phone caller. right. I know. Like, Just 

Jess: text me. But the other thing too, is that just because somebody calls you, you don't have to answer, 

Randi: You don't have to meet their expectations. No. 

Jess: Yeah. Just because somebody knocks on my door doesn't mean I need to answer it. Especially if I don't know who they are.

I'm like, mm. I don't know you. I'm 

Randi: not answering the door. Yeah. And luckily we have ring cameras. I'm like, Hey no, don't wanna talk. To you. 

Jess: And then the other thing is that just because somebody sends you a text message doesn't mean you have to feel guilty about not responding for whatever, when you have the brain power to do it, or an hour or two hours a day.

 It's not instant. Yeah. And we have to learn that just cuz my phone's on me doesn't mean I have to talk to 

Randi: you. No, exactly. And that is a great boundary and I hope that we have helped you guys learn about boundaries in this episode and. And implement some. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us at

Jess: Yep. And we'll throw some stuff up for boundaries to help you reinforce some uh, put up some traits for 

Randi: toxic people. Yeah. Some articles and uh, yeah, we'll put up some stuff for you guys. Yeah. We'll get there. Talk to you next time.

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Episode 6 Transcription

women's mental health podcast